Of Unlock Keys and Cammy's Ass

First order of business is that Oli Clarke Smith Presents an Oli Clarke Smith Game: Rogue Warrior has been featured on a podcast! This comes courtesy of Idle Thumbs and the discussion starts about 30 minutes in.

Hit it up here.

Thanks to James for the hook up.

Myself and Ben have done another discussion. This may be the last one if Ben doesn't learn how to fucking type. God gave us capital letters and punctuation for a reason. This one is about DLC and specifically value perception of downloadable content.

As always, if any of you want to be involved with these, let me know. Ben and I have got ideas for a more quick fire version of this that would be suitable for multiple people to join in with. I also crave feedback on these.

Plans for a podcast are afoot as one of my hetero life mates (in this case Phil) has offered to produce for me and also do a theme tune.

Enjoy!

Chopemon says:
Welcome to the second discussion. I'm Oli Clarke Smith and with me again is...

Ben says:
Benjamin R. H. Gouldstone

Chopemon says:
This week we're going to hit up the topic of DLC and some of the recent issues that have come about because of it.
First up is attaching value to content. The recent Resident Evil 5 versus pack caused a bit of an internet storm when two new game modes clocked in at 400 MS points for a 2 meg file with many people believing it was an unlock key. I think people reacted badly to it because of the file size even though it was not and unlock. How do you feel about paying for just code and no new levels or characters?

Ben says:
I wasn't best pleased to be honest
I got the multiplayer pack, and I knew what I was getting for my money. The problem with it, is it feels like you are being ripped off even though it isn’t an unlock code. People realise that that extra 2 meg of code would have fit on and should have been on the disk anyway.
As far as pricing goes, why should we be getting charged for something we should be entitled to?

Chopemon says:
How are we entitled to it? It is Capcom's product, they can sell it to us as they like. Their excuse is that it was created outside of the main game. As you know, there is usually a fair amount of time between a game hitting beta and it getting released. It could well have been done in that time. Also, in this instance, Capcom games tend to retail at a slightly lower price point than other games so maybe they felt that they could charge for an optional extra mode?

Ben says:
I would agree, if the Mercs mode wasn’t in there. This might sound strange, but I would have been happier paying the price I did for the original game without Mercs mode, then paying more to download it as an add-on with the multiplayer included. The reason is the cost doesn’t reflect the content. In terms of value of content, often DLC feels rather wayward in pricing.
For example Psychonauts on classics is 1200 points (I think) and the 2 meg of code for Resi 5 was 400, so far as value for money is concerned, it just doesn’t feel right.
What do you think?

Chopemon says:
Playing devil's advocate on this, your perceived value of it doesn't feel right. Your Doublefine boner aside, pricing subjective experiences is always going to be hard. For some people the value of Resi 5 will out weigh the cost of a full game. I am happy to pay any amount of money for something that I am going to enjoy. This does lead on to the subject of unlock keys though and I'll admit that after hating the Soul Calibur 4 bullshit, I got some of the Street Fighter costume packs. I was happy to pay for them despite them being unlocks. The sad fact is that unlocks are the only way to sell online costumes though. MS don't allow you to patch in content so it has to already be on the disk.
It hurts but Cammy's ass helped me get over it.

Ben says:
Well I can understand that, it gave me my Doublefine boner as you mentioned
It hurts because it can be seen as the problem of the dev or MS, its either the dev’s fault for locking the content, or MS' for not allowing the patching. The non patching front can be seen as a plus, because it stops devs releasing for the most part broken and unfinished games, but that stops as you said content being patched "in".
I think sometimes the value of the content is taken too much from the effort put in by the dev not the value to the consumer if that makes sense?
What was stopping that Soul Calibur costume rubbish from being a 10 point download?

Chopemon says:
You can still release broken games (Gears of War 2) and patch code but because there is no built in hard drive you are not allowed to patch content.
You can't do 10 point downloads, MS have several pricing tiers. I think the problem is that DLC is still a fairly new content and people aren't entirely used to paying for digital content. That doesn't excuse the feeling of being ripped off by withheld content. I recently paid 1600 points for The Lost and Damned and despite that being relatively expensive for content it still felt completely worth it. What's the best piece of DLC you've grabbed?

Ben says:
Specifically on Xbox?

Chopemon says:
Give me an Xbox one but anything else that you've had would be cool.

Ben says:
I've gotta say lost and damned, because it made me appreciate GTA 4 again. I think that can be a good indicator of really strong DLC, it makes you want to play the game again. At no point playing lost and damned did I feel like it was lacking, it was polished, it played well and the feeling it gave you was strong like GTA 4, but different enough to make it new.
Other than that it would have to be Portal over steam, even though I aced it in pretty much 1 lunch hour
What about you, what was your best?

Chopemon says:
Lost and Damned is obviously amazing but outside of that the Rainbow Six Vegas and GRAW DLC has been amazing. I love those games and Ubisoft did a great job of supporting them. Some friends and I have recently been playing around with the Burnout Paradise DLC and that has been wonderfully supported. Which allows me to segue into release windows.
How important do you think DLC timing is? Too close to the game's release and you get the Resi 5 problem and too late and you get the Saints Row 2 content. In the transient world of gaming people have moved on from SR2 and I don't think it's doing well.

Ben says:
It’s strange you should mention Saints Row 2, because for me, recently chatting with my friends on live, there has been a new buzz going around. I don’t know if it’s the DLC, or if its people being tired of brown games but its there. But that said, timing is key. Taking the Resi 5 angle, if that same DLC would have come out 2 months from now, for the same price, I would happily get it.
I think lost and damned hit the nail on the head, but that’s off the back of a successful game, Saints Row 2 did ok, but it was sent to die against GTA 4, so it started bad and could only get worse. With all the furore around the episodic GTA 4 content, it’s no wonder it got lost to the ether.
Something that adds to a game’s longevity is great, but it has to come at the right time. After 4 weeks of GTA 4, clawing to the end, I’m ready for a rest. Rockstar gave that to the consumer and the lapped it up

Chopemon says:
That's like saying Burnout was sent to die after Forza, SR and GTA are very different games. I've regularly kept up with the Halo 3 DLC but not the Call of Duty or Gears DLC because very few of my friends play those online.
Some games just work really well with DLC and others don't. What would you like to see happening more with DLC?

Ben says:
The pricing reflecting the content, but from the angle of the people paying for it. The Microsoft brackets aren’t flexible enough to accommodate everything and as far as I know there is no regulation of pricing outside of the developer’s discretion. I think the key phrase is value for money, if I’m paying the equivalent cost of 30% of the original game; I want the content to reflect that cost
What do you think the next logical step is with DLC, so far as regulating content and pricing?

Chopemon says:
MS advise on pricing but have brackets you have to fall in with. I'm hoping that consumers vote with their wallets and we see content reflecting this. I'd like to see new models emerge as well. Ubisoft demoed DLC with their first Naruto game and that was pretty rad. I want stuff that revitalises a game and not have it focus so much on multiplayer. I know multiplayer is cheaper than single player but stuff like the Prince of Persia and Mirror's Edge content would be really good.

Ben says:
I have to agree, things like new weapons. Thinking about it, what they did with the re-releases with the original Resi would be interesting as DLC. The original game "re imagined" with puzzles swapped round and different camera angles. I know it’s a simplistic definition, but that sort of thing gives a game new life.
I play a lot of single player games and I almost prefer it, I want to get lost in the game and have it feel special for me alone. Anything that can give me that experience again or at least extend it cant be a bad thing. Map packs and new perks are great, but it’s not always something I want
What about themes and gamer pictures, what's your take on them?

Chopemon says:
I occasionally buy gamerpics but never themes. The trouble with gamerpics is that they are usually over priced and shit.

Ben says:
I think they are dying a death, with the new avatars, no one really wants them. I can’t think of 1 person other than you that has a gamerpic instead of an avatar shot because they are free

Chopemon says:
But soon they will charge for avatar clothing as well.

Ben says:
You can bet, but the systems already there. your face doesn’t change as much as your clothing does, but I don’t think its something that people are gonna go mad over. I think extra customisation options for themes might be a good idea. I have the premium sf4 theme, and the Chun Li image is on marketplace or something and for my main dash its Ryu’s ugly monkey face.
If I could swap it around, I would be much happier to pay for them.
The other thing is you don’t always know what you’re really getting.
There needs to be images, videos anything to illustrate better what DLC really is and what you are getting. I've been let down too many times, getting something, and it not being anything I really wanted

Chopemon says:
On that rather depressing note we'll wrap this up. There have been some good points raised, thanks very much Ben.

Ben says:
Thank you Oli, it’s been a pleasure.